All in the family: Interview with John Winning Part II
This is the Part II of you chat with John Winning from Winning Appliances. To read Part I, click here.
Recent reports show that Apple’s new office building has a build quality well beyond what anyone could reasonably expect from an economic point of view. At what point can you no longer justify the expense of the ‘experience’?
We’ve got a really good CFO who pulls me into line!
It’s a bit of a judgement call, to be honest. Take for example the marble splashback in the Sub Zero appliance display. That cost somewhere around $100,000 to put together… and we could have done something that looked roughly the same for a tenth of the cost…
But you’d know… people would know. Plus, we’re trying to recreate the experience that someone might have in their home. I can guarantee you that if they are spending upwards of $40,000 on a fridge, then the setting will be stunning.
Plus, it’s about being honest with the customer. We’re not trying to fool them – we’re making a statement that says, “We believe enough in this brand to make a significant investment.” This is the best of the best, and the customer deserves to see these products in a setting that reflects their quality.
Similarly, we’re not going to spend that amount of money on a Westinghouse fridge. That requires a different experience and we need to maintain that sense of honesty.
A few years ago, you toyed with an IPO. For a 111-year-old company that has opened three stores and closed none, the idea of an IPO seems to conflict with cautious and deliberate growth.
Yeah – it’s an interesting one. There were numerous approaches on the back of a similar company in the UK going public. Were we ever really that interested in doing the same? Not really… however we were interested in getting some valuations and to understand what we were sitting on.
I’m not overly excited about being a 32-year-old CEO of a publicly listed company. I’m getting older by the day, and hopefully wiser by the month and we are totally committed to the path we are on – and having a great time while we do it. That valuation gave us the confidence to go forward and open new stores.
The other problem with a public company is the push to maximise profits. Can you justify those little one-percenters that make this showroom so extraordinary to a room filled with shareholders? I think we would be deeply compromised in what we are currently trying to achieve.
A traditional retailer or analyst would be horrified by the fact that we have two metre walkways and couches that aren’t for sale. They would consider the return-per-square-metre to be horrendous and tear strips off you until you fixed it. We’re not interested in that, because as you know, it wouldn’t deliver the right experience.
Going back to Apple, they have an incredible return-per-square-metre that leaves other retail in the shade. Their stores have minimal products, lots of space and an incredible customer experience. We’re not trying to replicate what they are doing, but Apple is proof that the philosophy works.
There’s been plenty of international recognition for your stores…
It’s amazing. We were nominated for a World Retail Award in 2015 Best Showroom Experience (over 1200 square metres). That was for our Redfern premises – which, as I said, is now our second-best store.
There are representatives from companies we range that fly to Australia to see how we do it. That’s amazing for us, and inspires everyone in the company to keep striving for the next level of success. We constantly evaluate what we are doing and look at even the tiniest areas for improvement.
Do other retailers at that level work with a similarly steady path to profitability?
I can’t speak for others, but we certainly don’t like to operate a loss for too long. As you can see, these stores represent a significant investment that we need to recover. So, it’s essential to have a quick path to profitability because it not only guarantees us the future of this store, but allows us to expand.
How do we do that? Well, we’re going to through a few events, engage heavily with the architects and designers in Canberra and establish ourselves in the market as quickly as possible. Besides, we already know that once a customer experiences the store, they are quick to refer us to others, so the focus is letting people know that we’re here.
Your staff are really passionate about the business. How have you built such a strong corporate culture?
It’s simple. We hire really great people.
We don’t technically have a HR Department. We call it the Team Experience Department, and it’s led by an amazing woman who understands who and what we’re looking for. We have multiple interviews and make sure that they don’t have just have the skills to work in the position, but that they are the kind of people we really want to work alongside.
Then it’s essential that everyone at Winning understands our mission to provide the best retail experience in the world. Our team has a specific set of values, and those are aligned across the organisation.
Then there’s leadership. All 600 employees must have great guidance. That’s not just at the executive level, but all the way down to the individual teams on the floor. They need the right training and the ability to make the right decisions that work towards our mission and align with our values.
If you have all of that working together, then success can only follow.
I once asked Alan Jones to coach me on leadership. He told me that the most important thing was to “get a great team behind you that know you are working as hard as – if not harder – than they are to achieve a common goal.” That’s pretty much the one-minute lesson on leadership from Alan Jones.
Who do you admire in business?
The Chair of our advisory board, David Gordon, is such an amazing mentor for me… and it’s hard to overstate just how much he has taught me. What’s great is that David is Sydney-based so we can catch up on a regular basis, but the other members of the board Launa Innman and John Armstrong are a huge influence on what we do.
Other than the board, my father has been the main influence. As I mentioned, his intensity shapes everything I do, and you can’t put a price on that kind of training. I mean, anyone can pick up a business manual and learn the tricks of the trade, but there is nothing like witnessing it first-hand.
Alan Jones is another inspiration. What’s amazing about Alan is this: regardless of whether I’m dealing with the staff at the radio station or someone that works for him privately, there is an army of people that are totally invested in what he is doing and would take a bullet without hesitation. Alan manages to get 110% out of his people, and they know and respect the fact they are working for someone who is extraordinary.
You have a couple of skiffs that are loaned to the Cruising Yacht Club for the Sydney-to-Hobart and your home features a bedroom cast in fibreglass typically used for hulls. Is sailing a passion in your spare time?
I absolutely love boats, and my dad is barely off the water these days. Our two skiffs are 18-footers which we love to sail. We’re not a flashy family – I don’t think dad has ever owned a new car – but sailing is a definite passion.
I’ve sailed since I was four years old, and was part of the crew on Perpetual Loyal when it broke the record for the Sydney-to-Hobart in December. I’m really proud of that.
I was the 2002 World Champion for 18-foot skiffs in the 29er class and my father was a World Champion in 2001.
Other than that, I’m getting into skydiving. I’m a bit of an adrenaline junkie. I did my first tandem when I was 14, and did a lot of jumps through the cadets. I went back to it a couple of years ago and have definitely been bitten by the bug. I’ve done over 100 solo jumps since then!
Winning Appliances' Canberra store is now open on the corner of Jardine & Giles streets in Kingston